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Re: Xway b1 - idea: CSS blank canvas or CSS paint by numbers

Paul Dunning
 

It’s when they are comparing speeds/capacities, and show an increase like this : 10x, and then say “tex ex”. That should be “ten times”.

“TimesWay”?

All the best,

Paul Dunning

web design - http://www.pauldunning.com

freeway actions - http://www.actionsworld.com




On 13 Nov 2019, at 03:25, Chuck-amuck via Groups.Io <chuckplatt@...> wrote:

Or use the Apple convention and pronounce it TenWay.

Or my favorite, NoWay. ;-)


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Jeremy Hughes
 
Edited


You don't need to keep changing the position property,...
Well you do if you can't get to the text unless you know about the procedure above.

 

It's not a difficult procedure:

1. Command-Return does the same as Return in Freeway. (We wanted to keep Return for adding returns - new paragraphs - after a box.) So: same as Freeway but add Command.

2. Tab switches out of the Site panel. Tab is normal for switching between views (e.g. text fields).

(In your document you can also click directly on the text box, because it's actually in front of the image.)

What we decided with Xway is that it should be possible to use arrow keys within the Site panel. You can't do this in Freeway because the Site panel is always inactive (it never responds to key presses). Because Xway allows you to do this, we provided Tab as a keyboard shortcut for switching out of the Site panel. You can also click back in the Layout view, although this will change your selection if you click on a different item (we're considering whether it should do this or whether a first click should simply switch back to the Layout view).

Jeremy


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Jeremy Hughes
 

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 01:52 PM, Tim Plumb wrote:
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 05:35 AM, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
What I was really asking was whether there are other ways to scale text.
Use a script.
That seems like a pretty heavy-weight solution. Are there any easier solutions that don't require JavaScript?

Jeremy


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Tim Plumb
 

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 05:57 AM, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
1. Select the item in the Site panel
2. Press Tab to switch out of the Site panel
3. Press Command-Return to edit text within the box
Well that's one for the post it note stuck to the screen.

You don't need to keep changing the position property,...
Well you do if you can't get to the text unless you know about the procedure above.


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Jeremy Hughes
 


You don't need to keep changing the position property, but the reason that Xway adds top and left offsets is because this allows you to drag the box after you've converted it.
Freeway doesn't allow you to remove offsets from absolute positioned items. The fact that you can remove them in Xway is another feature that Freeway doesn't have. Boxes that don't have offsets are positioned according to where they are in the content (text) flow. This is sometimes useful.

Also: Freeway doesn't allow you to convert absolute-positioned boxes (layers) into relative-positioned boxes (inflow items) or vice versa.

Jeremy


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Jeremy Hughes
 

 
In Freeway you could select the item in the site panel and hit return or enter to drop into that box. from there you could select the text. We don't have that in Xway
1. Select the item in the Site panel
2. Press Tab to switch out of the Site panel
3. Press Command-Return to edit text within the box

Rather than adding the positioning style as an extended item I tried changing the position property using the inspector. Unfortunately every time I changed the item from relative to absolute it would add a top:0 and left:0 style which prevented the vertical alignment code from working. If I stripped these values out they would come back each time I switched the positioning back again.
You don't need to keep changing the position property, but the reason that Xway adds top and left offsets is because this allows you to drag the box after you've converted it.

Jeremy


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Tim Plumb
 
Edited

On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 05:35 AM, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
What I was really asking was whether there are other ways to scale text.
Use a script.


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Tim Plumb
 

Thanks Jeremy.

How would you do it in Freeway?
I suspect it could be almost as hard to do in Freeway. The lack of user defined styles and my inability to select that text overlay item when I wanted to just made it a bit of a pain. If I were to do this in Freeway I think I'd set ups class style for each of the elements and apply those to the elements as I needed to style them.

You can select items in the Site panel!
You can but selecting the text in a div that you can't click on in the design view is almost impossible. In Freeway you could select the item in the site panel and hit return or enter to drop into that box. from there you could select the text. We don't have that in Xway at the moment as hitting return or enter simply tries to edit the item name in the site panel.

Rather than adding the positioning style as an extended item I tried changing the position property using the inspector. Unfortunately every time I changed the item from relative to absolute it would add a top:0 and left:0 style which prevented the vertical alignment code from working. If I stripped these values out they would come back each time I switched the positioning back again.


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Jeremy Hughes
 

What I was really asking was whether there are other ways to scale text. The two options that I suggested were:

1. Use viewpoint-relative measurements (vw). This is easy to do (Xway supports almost all types of CSS measurement).

2. Use calc in an Extended Property (I haven’t tried doing this but I *think* it should be possible)

Does anyone know of other options?

You could of course convert the text into an image (as you might do in Freeway) and set this to a percentage width - but then you lose the advantages of having real text - and you’re setting the clock back by about twenty years in terms of web design.

(We once had a customer who created pages that consisted entirely of GIF text.)

Jeremy


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Jeremy Hughes
 

You can select items in the Site panel!
In addition to using the Site panel, there are other ways to switch between items in the layout that I suggested:

1. Use arrow keys: if you have an absolute item that follows a relative-positioned item, left-arrowing twice will take you from the absolute item to the relative item. Arrow keys take you through content in the same way that they would in any other text editor. Child boxes are content, in exactly the same way that text is content.

2. Use Select Next Sibling/Previous Sibling/Parent/First Child:

The structure in this case is:

div: item1
p:
img: [imagename]
div: item2
p:
[Some text]

You can see this by selecting Show Site from the View menu (which is where I copied it from). Here, if you’ve selected item2 (the absolute-positioned item), Select Previous Sibling will select the paragraph that contains the image and Select First Child will select the image that is inside that paragraph.

There are keyboard shortcuts (Command arrow key) for this.

[Show Site a temporary feature, because we’re planning to make this information available in the Site panel in future. This will also allow you to select paragraphs, links, etc. by clicking on them in the Site panel]

Jeremy


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Jeremy Hughes
 

Hi Tim,

I took a closer look at this last night and I've got to tell you that it wasn't easy in Xway.
How would you do it in Freeway?

Setting the text overlay items to absolute positioning works but makes editing the image wrapper or image impossible in Xway. You have to keep toggling the position just to be able to get access to these items. In the end I added the position styles as extended properties as it did away with this issue. The downside is that the design view doesn't reflect the final output.
You can select items in the Site panel!

Jeremy


Re: Photo galleries + display text

Tim Plumb
 

On Tue, Nov 12, 2019 at 02:31 PM, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
See my other reply: https://softpress.groups.io/g/xway-talk/message/194

But maybe there are other ways of doing this: suggestions, anyone?
I took a closer look at this last night and I've got to tell you that it wasn't easy in Xway. Here's my attempt at following your suggested construction Jeremy.

Setting the text overlay items to absolute positioning works but makes editing the image wrapper or image impossible in Xway. You have to keep toggling the position just to be able to get access to these items. In the end I added the position styles as extended properties as it did away with this issue. The downside is that the design view doesn't reflect the final output.

Possibly the biggest issue I have is that, as mentioned before, I'd normally define these boxes as class styles so I can quickly and easily apply them to each new image and overlay in the site. Having to set two of these up manually was a drag and simply duplicates the ID styles for each box. Add another 10 or so boxes and those styles become a major pain to keep updated.

You'll see I've added a fair few bits of extended code around the file to vertically centre the text overlay in the parent wrapper (display: flex) as well as to remove the p tag that wanted to wrap the image.

The overlay text scales (using vw values as you suggested Jeremy) but it is a little uncontrollable without breakpoints as it will just get stupidly big or small at the extreme ends of the scale.

At the end of the day I'd like to see elements like this become components (either through styles or master items) that users can define once and reuse again and again throughout their sites.


Re: Xway b1 - idea: CSS blank canvas or CSS paint by numbers

Jeremy Hughes
 


Or my favorite, NoWay. ;-)
Yes way! :)

Jeremy


Re: Xway b1 - idea: CSS blank canvas or CSS paint by numbers

Chuck-amuck
 

Or use the Apple convention and pronounce it TenWay.

Or my favorite, NoWay. ;-)


Re: Unable to copy and paste structural elements

Jeremy Hughes
 

1. Do this
2. Do that
3. >> Something unexpected happens
Here’s an actual bug that is on my list:

XW-214 Image scaled wrongly when width is increased

1. Insert a (small-ish) image
2. Give it a width
3. Increase the width until it is larger than the native width
4. >> Xway doesn't scale the height in proportion to the width (contrast what happens in browsers).

Jeremy


Re: Unable to copy and paste structural elements

Jeremy Hughes
 

Hi Richard,

One question: how would you like us to report bugs so we can help you?
The best way to report bugs is to provide a numbered series of steps in the following format:

1. Do this
2. Do that
3. >> Something unexpected happens

[We use >> to indicate something that happens as opposed to something that is done.]

This might be followed or preceded by a general explanation of what you expect to happen vs. what actually happens.

The important thing is to have a series of steps that will reproduce the bug. It’s difficult for us to fix bugs that we can’t reproduce.

There can be any number of steps, but shorter steps are better (wherever possible). It’s always good to ask whether a particular step is necessary.

If you report bugs (with steps) here on Xway Talk, we will log them and attempt to fix them in the next beta.

Jeremy


Re: The page div - why?

Jeremy Hughes
 

Hi Leif,

We considered not having a pagediv, but we felt that it made things simpler. When you say “web designers know...”, you’re really talking about hand-coders. Xway (like Freeway) is aimed at people who don’t necessarily want to write code by hand.

One thing that it simplifies is that it’s easy to generate pages that are centre-aligned by default.

1) Web designers know that the type of the body element cannot be changed
That’s also true in Xway.

2) they also considers it the root - thus the do not need to learn that Xway considers something else the root.

Xway doesn’t consider the pagediv to be the root. Xway considers the page to be the root: head and body are children of the page, and the pagediv is a child of the body.

3) It would be simpler to remake existing templates in Xway
We haven’t got to the stage where we’re writing code for HTML import or Freeway import, but I don’t think the existence of a pagediv will make it more difficult - 1. Freeway has a pagediv, 2. We can easily make allowances for code that doesn’t have a (single) pagediv.

We’re not locked into this. If we decide in future that the pagediv should be optional, we can do that. But there are other things that are more important at the moment.

Jeremy


The page div - why?

leif halvard silli
 

According to the Xway manual, pages need a

<div id="pagediv1">

as its root element. You say even that the type of the page div, cannot be changed

But why? What issues do you solve by that?

Why not instead require a special id or class for the body element? For example:

<body id="pageroot-1">

May be you have good reasons for your choice. But let me explain what I think the  idea to use the body element would solve:

1) Web designers know that the type of the body element cannot be changed

2) they also considers it the root - thus the do not need to learn that Xway considers something else the root.

3) It would be simpler to remake existing templates in Xway  E.g  if one wants to remake a page or template in Xway and if that page/tenplate itself contains a page div (such as <div class="content" ), it seems the current approach would result in two page divs - that if Xway and that of the template. And if the imported code contains no page div, it would be impossible to remake the page/template in Xway unless you rethink the entire template.

Leif Halvard Silli


The page div - why?

leif halvard silli
 

According to the Xway manual, pages need a

<div id="pagediv1">

as its root element. You say even that the type of the page div, cannot be changed

But why? What issues do you solve by that?

Why not instead require a special id or class for the body element? For example:

<body id="pageroot-1">

May be you have good reasons for your choice. But let me explain what I think the  idea to use the body element would solve:

1) Web designers know that the type of the body element cannot be changed

2) they also considers it the root - thus the do not need to learn that Xway considers something else the root.

3) It would be simpler to remake existing templates in Xway  E.g  if one wants to remake a page or template in Xway and if that page/tenplate itself contains a page div (such as <div class="content" ), it seems the current approach would result in two page divs - that if Xway and that of the template. And if the imported code contains no page div, it would be impossible to remake the page/template in Xway unless you rethink the entire template.

Leif Halvard Silli


Re: Unable to copy and paste structural elements

Richard Cacciato
 
Edited

Got it. I'm thrilled you've released Xway 0.1 and can't wait till you add more features.

One question: how would you like us to report bugs so we can help you?

Thanks.

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