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Re: Xway b1 - UI: Site panel selection issues

Tim Plumb
 

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 10:13 AM, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
That’s an interesting idea, but I think that many of these cases would be better served by having master pages (as in Freeway). We will be supporting master pages in future, and it’s possible that we could also support other types of master items - but there is a lot of complexity that has to be dealt with (as I know from having implemented master content for inflow items in Freeway) and we want to get it right.
Understood. I'm keen to see Xway move away from some of the more repetitive aspects of maintaining elements that we saw in Freeway. Changing padding, border or background styles on dozens of elements because a design has changed isn't a fun task. If that process can be streamlined so that all of the items share a common ancestry (either as a set of CSS styles or via a visual style editor) then changes like this don't become a burden.


Re: Xway b1 - bug: Background origin and clip options

Tim Plumb
 

Thanks for the detailed explanation Jeremy. I’d yet to get up to page 53 in the User Guide.

I now see the thought process behind these controls. What I don’t quite understand is how a user is to know if the application will produce a style for their selection or not.
Try this;

1. Select some text in xWay
2. In the Span Inspector set the font Size to Small from Medium (the default Undefined value)
3. Preview
4. >>> The code should be font-size:small
5. In the Span Inspector set the font Size to Medium from Small
6. Preview
7. >>> The code should be font-size:medium

The font size control in step 1 looks exactly the same as the control in step 5 yet the application is now outputting a redundant style for us. I doubt many users would know or even care but redundant styles like this do tend to give a bad impression of the overall state of the page output.

Could the Undefined option place the default value in parenthesis;
Undefined (medium)
and keep the option selected (ticked) to show that it is unset?


Re: Xway b1 - UI: Recent URLs list is missing a label

Jeremy Hughes
 

If you select a URL from the popup menu (so the URL field populates and the Protocol menu makes a selection) the None option in the Protocol menu becomes redundant. If you try and select the option it will simply ignore you and leave the dialog unchanged. That, to me, looks odd. I suspect clearing the dialog when the None option is selected would be worse as you'd be losing user data but still it looks a little clunky unless you know why it is ignoring your selection. Again can the None option be disabled if it doesn't do anything?
I think that what should probably happen is that None should be hidden rather than disabled in this situation.

I’ve logged this as a bug.

Jeremy


Re: Xway b1 - bug: User error can cause Xway to create invalid font styles

Jeremy Hughes
 

Xway won't render the font in the design view
It will display the font if you download it from Google and put it in your fonts folder.
For more detail see the “Working with fonts” section in the User Guide.

Jeremy


Re: Xway b1 - UI: Recent URLs list is missing a label

Tim Plumb
 

Thanks for the explanation Jeremy. I now see that those two controls (the URL field and the popup below it) are linked entities. Maybe if the popup menu is empty the control should remain inactive until you start typing in the URL field?

If you select a URL from the popup menu (so the URL field populates and the Protocol menu makes a selection) the None option in the Protocol menu becomes redundant. If you try and select the option it will simply ignore you and leave the dialog unchanged. That, to me, looks odd. I suspect clearing the dialog when the None option is selected would be worse as you'd be losing user data but still it looks a little clunky unless you know why it is ignoring your selection. Again can the None option be disabled if it doesn't do anything?


Re: Xway b1 - UI: Site panel selection issues

Jeremy Hughes
 

It’s also the same in Freeway.
Now that's no excuse! ;-)
The basic principle is that we don’t want to introduce unnecessary complications. Later on, if we have time to spare, we can revisit some of these decisions - but it’s the same with all software. The Finder (in Mojave at least) doesn’t allow you to select items in two different windows and display information on both (simultaneously).

Freeway is generally far more restrictive than Xway. Try to select two inflow boxes - on the same level and within the same parent - in Freeway (you can’t). Or try to edit two boxes in Freeway’s Inspector palette (you can’t).

I think if we could either have item styles or a way to select all items that share a common style then it would make updating them all so much easier. Maybe an option to select or change the properties of all items that are exactly the same.

Other items within the site are identical to this item. Would you like to update those items as well?
Yes (I can now undo) or No (I'm too scared)
That’s an interesting idea, but I think that many of these cases would be better served by having master pages (as in Freeway). We will be supporting master pages in future, and it’s possible that we could also support other types of master items - but there is a lot of complexity that has to be dealt with (as I know from having implemented master content for inflow items in Freeway) and we want to get it right.

Jeremy


Re: Xway b1 - bug: User error can cause Xway to create invalid font styles

Jeremy Hughes
 

Thanks for the steps!

Xway won't render the font in the design view
It will display the font if you download it from Google and put it in your fonts folder.

how do I delete font sets?
You don’t need to delete fonts. Unless you set them to be permanent they will be automatically deleted when they are no longer needed - which means when they are no longer used in the document or on the document’s undo stack.

Even if they are no longer needed in the current document, they might be needed if you undo to a previous stage of the document. There is a note about this in the Xway User Guide:

Note: Temporary fonts are not always removed immediately. If they are not used within the document, but are applied to objects that exist in the undo stack (and can be brought back by undoing or redoing), they are retained until they are no longer needed. Fonts that are used by objects in the undo stack, but are not used in the document, will be removed when the document is saved and reopened.

Jeremy


Re: Xway b1 - UI: Site panel selection issues

Tim Plumb
 

On Wed, Nov 6, 2019 at 09:27 AM, Jeremy Hughes wrote:
It’s also the same in Freeway.
Now that's no excuse! ;-)

I think if we could either have item styles or a way to select all items that share a common style then it would make updating them all so much easier. Maybe an option to select or change the properties of all items that are exactly the same.

Other items within the site are identical to this item. Would you like to update those items as well?
Yes (I can now undo) or No (I'm too scared)


Re: Xway b1 - bug: User error can cause Xway to create invalid font styles

Tim Plumb
 

1. Choose "View fonts" from the tool bar
2. Click New...
3. Enter McLaren for the Font Name
4. Add Times to the Alternative Fonts field
5. Select Cursive from the Font Type menu
6. Enter the following URL for a hosted font
https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=McLaren&display=swap
7. Preview
8. >> Xway outputs "font-family: McLaren,Times,cursive"
9. Return to view fonts from the tool bar
10. Select the McLaren entry
11. Remove the text from the Alternative Fonts field
12. Preview
13. >> The font is not rendered in McLaren as the font-family reference is now broken and Way outputs:  "font-family: McLaren,,cursive"

A bit more involved that I'd first imagined as the issue looks like it is with the entry editing rather than the creation.
For extra points note that Xway won't render the font in the design view but does OK when previewed. Maybe there is a fix for that.

Incidentally how do I delete font sets? I can't appear to delete them and now I've got a shed load of them while testing this! :-)


Re: Xway b1 - bug: User error can cause Xway to create invalid font styles

Jeremy Hughes
 
Edited

Sorry - I see that you said Fonts view rather than New font dialog.

I can reproduce the issue there, but steps are always helpful!

Jeremy


Re: Xway b1 - UI: Site panel selection issues

Jeremy Hughes
 

The site panel can only select elements that are in the same level as each other. A page/ or sub page element cannot be selected along with another at another level. For example two divs on different pages.
That’s true, and it’s deliberate.

It’s also the same in Freeway.

Jeremy


Re: Xway UI approach ...

Tim Plumb
 
Edited


Xway b1 - UI: Site panel selection issues

Tim Plumb
 

The site panel can only select elements that are in the same level as each other. A page/ or sub page element cannot be selected along with another at another level. For example two divs on different pages.


Re: Xway b1 - bug: User error can cause Xway to create invalid font styles

Jeremy Hughes
 

Hi Tim,

Can you give me some steps, because I'm having trouble reproducing this?

1. Choose "Other..." from a Font menu
2. Type "Palatino" as the Font Name
3. Leave the Alternative Fonts field empty
4. >> The New Font dialog displays "Palatino, serif"
5. Preview
6. >> Xway outputs "font-family:Palatino,serif"

Jeremy


Re: Xway UI approach ...

Jeremy Hughes
 

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the feedback! Can you update the link though? (I get 404 Not Found)

Jeremy


Xway UI approach ...

Richard van Heukelum <rvanheukelum@...>
 

First of all a great thank you for Jeremy, who's been working on this for so long.
I personally think the UI like done here offers more control and consistency. I do realise the current app is still work in progress, but with that in mind I think that that specific approach opens more doors.


Re: Xway feedback

max.izzat@...
 

Ok Jeremy sound like a plan it would be good to get a view from Walter, Tim and all the others that require that sort of flexibility

Max


Re: Xway feedback

Jeremy Hughes
 
Edited

Hi Max,

This is something that I've thought about, but I don't have any clear ideas about how to do it yet.

If you're interested in starting a discussion, you could open a new thread and explain (in more detail) why this would be useful.

The (incomplete) list of missing features is mostly features that are in Freeway but aren't yet in Xway. I didn't include features that aren't in Freeway - except for Printing.

Jeremy


Re: Xway b1 - UI: Recent URLs list is missing a label

Jeremy Hughes
 
Edited

The Text > Link dialog is missing a label for the recent URLs list. Without it (and unpopulated) it just looks broken and confusing.
I’ve logged this as a suggestion.

This popup isn't quite the same as a Recent URLs popup. It’s inter-related with the URL field and it displays the *current* URL (along with recent URLs)

Currently the "URL" label applies to both the URL field and the URL popup (since they’re inter-related).

Freeway’s equivalent is called “Quick Links”, and displays a popup that is always empty.

Jeremy


Re: Xway feedback

max.izzat@...
 
Edited

Hi Jeremy 

One thing that seems to missed off from the 'missing list' (I do appreciate it was just a small list) was using classes rather than ID. That was one of Freeways Achilles heels, so many of the styles were duplicated when they didn't need to be. The other problem was when it came to valid HTML and using a CMS to create a duplicate structure. I think me, Walter, Tim and a few others had at one point or another a stab at creating actions that structured the HTML and rewrote the styles so that classes were used instead of ID's. Is that one of the areas you had planned to look at in the future as well?

cheers max

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